The Case for Municipal Ownership
of Public Utilities

Andrew Carnegie

[Excerpts from a news item in the New York Times, 11 November, 1905, with the title "Carnegie Home Again, Talks on Many Things"]

Andrew Carnegie got home on the White Start liner Baltic yesterday in good sprit is and with plenty of ammunition for "his friends, the reporters." He talked about everything -- the city election and Mr. Hearst's contest, municipal ownership, the situation in Russia, the insurance investigation, Jerome, libraries, and football.

It was Mr. Carnegie's eighty-sixth trip across the Atlantic, and he has never returned from his annual vacation in Scotland looking better.

He got the news at Quarantine of the city election and Mr. Hearst's charge that he had been counted out.

"Of all things we should have an honest count," he began. "I do not think that any attempt to defraud the people out of a fair count could ever be successful, for the voice of the people will make itself heard. I believe that this Republic is immortal, and it matters not what troubles it is confronted with, it will come through with foundations unshaken. You can always trust the people. They demand and will have a square deal. Their voice is going to be heard, and when they are interested they usually vote right." "What about municipal ownership?" Mr. Carnegie was asked.

"Municipal ownership?" he said. "I know what it has done in England. There is hardly a municipality in England that does not control its gas, its tramways, water supply and sewerage.

"Whatever is increased in value by the increase of population of a city should belong to the city. The people should not give away their franchises. Whether it is advisable for them to operate public utiliities is of small importance. As to the giving away of franchises, a city should be in a position -- not giving them away -- to take them back. The leases, which should be given, should be for as short a time as possible. The shorter the better. The ownership should always remain with the city."

It was suggested to Mr. Carnegie that political conditions in America were not as favorable as in England for municipal ownership -- that in this country municipal ownership would be used by political parties for partisan gain.

"That is a grave objection," he replied, "but here comes the question, Do you believe in the rule of the people? Are you a true democrat? There is nothing so purifying as public opinion. There will be cases of jobbery under municipal ownership here as there are now, but this must cease as a result of public opinion."

"What about Jerome?"

"Yes, there is Jerome," Mr. Carnegie went on. "He does not believe in libraries, but that is because he does not know as much about the subject as I do. He was probably brought up where books could be had easily. I wish that he could read some of the letters from people who have thanked me for the great good done by libraries. I could convert Mr. Jerome if I had a good talk with him."

"What do you think of Hearst?"

"I never had the pleasure of meeting that extraordinary young man. I believe Mr. Hearst is sincere, but he is a young man and doesn't know it all yet."

Then Mr. Carnegie turned to the insurance investigation.

"This insurance affair," he said, "has made a profound impression throughout Europe. It is amazing that Americans are willing to lend their good name to financial institutions where they can not or do not have time to perform their duties. They are simply decoy ducks. The men we need are those that can lend their money, and their good names, too, and guard both jealously. To control such evils, we should have men in office who are not money grabbers, who have retired from business, and who will conduct their public offices as they would their private business.

"Our business and moral standing has been lowered in the estimation of Europe by the disclosures in the insurance investigation."

"Are you a Director in any company?"

"No, not one. I have been asked time and again, but I reply that if the institution is a good one I will trust my dollars with it, but not my name. That is sacred."

Mr. Carnegie next referred to the situation in Russia. He said that the outlook for arbitration was never brighter, and that universal peace was not far distance. He said he admired President Roosevelt as a peacemaker, but he did not like him when he flourished the big stick and talked about the army and the navy.